Curse

Nerel · May 30, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Move Down

Most botters prob dont care about there ban and buy new account and start over.
But the people that worked hard and got banned for no reason will think twice before they ever buy a ncsoft game again.
So you will get only more botters and less players the way it goes now

So what you're saying is? Anet should redouble their efforts and ban MORE botters? Sounds like a plan.

Thankfully the number of players that got mistakenly banned seems very low, and hopefully once Anet/NCsoft has gotten past all the botters QQ'ing about their supposed innocence the truly innocent players will be dealt with fairly, and get their accounts back...

As for Anet, banned botters who were undoubtedly botting and still try to plead their innocence despite extensive botting in game... IP Block, ban based on credit card etc... if they want to dick around and waste supports time... well, just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO them right off with a "and don't come back" response. The second they buy GW2 and set up an account, ban them there too. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO'em.

Sorry, tired of all the whine.

shoyon456 · May 30, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

So what you're saying is? Anet should redouble their efforts and ban MORE botters? Sounds like a plan.

As for Anet, banned botters who were undoubtedly botting and still try to plead their innocence despite extensive botting in game... IP Block, ban based on credit card etc... if they want to dick around and waste supports time... well, just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO them right off with a "and don't come back" response. The second they buy GW2 and set up an account, ban them there too. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO'em.

Sorry, tired of all the whine.

First of all, I love you. Secondly, Anet can still do a lot more. I saw one person with 0/67 accounts banned. Unacceptable Anet.

These asshats are already figuring out how to evade Anet's new detection measures and what enabled some of them to get away. Soon they'll be working on more bots that work around Anet's measures. Pony up Anet, the battle is won but the war is far from over.

Davros Uitar · May 30, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Geesh - so the war wasn't one with a single stroke of the ban-scythe. Anet never promised it would be. The botters they removed this time was not a complete clean out, but it is a damn good start and shows that they are acting on an issue that the community wanted action on.

Yes there are still clever bots out there, yes there is more work to do. If you know someone then make a report rather than have a QQ about why there weren't more bans.

You don't delay action on 3700 so that you can get 5000 - you pick a time, you act on what you can, then you pick up your fork and start loading on the next mouthful.

JOB WELL DONE - KEEP UP WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

Sorry to disagree with you here, but I personally think that the universal perma-ban response by A-net was a bit harsh. It would be reasonable to say that the largest portion of those banned were people who have probably only tried these third-party programs out of curiosity, and that only a small percentage of those banned were actually the hardcore bot abusers who gained a significant advantage from this.

If the aim of A-net was to eliminate these serious offenders, then I suggest that this was not met. These serious offenders are likely to have numerous accounts where their wealth is stored, and if they were actually considering selling this gold, they would have resources in place to prevent the loss of their assets. Like I previously stated, they would have numerous accounts, and as it is possible to have an alternating IP address, it is likely that these accounts were not detected. These types of botters have no regard for the game, they use it as a source of revenue and it really doesn't matter to them whether they get one or even a few of their accounts banned. They will still find a way to access Guild Wars, and abuse it as there is never a surefire way to prevent bots in any MMO.

These bans haven't really addressed the real issue at stake, which is the serious abusers of these bots. What they have done is heaped the minor offenders, who like I said probably tried these bots out of curiousity rather than as a way to gain an unfair advantage, with the serious offenders and issued the same punishment. And this has only really affected those minor offenders, as they would probably still value the game for its gameplay and are likely upset. This is not an issue for the serious botters.

I believe the punishment should suit the crime, and that each account should have been reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Instead, those minor offenders have suffered the same fate as those who were serious offenders. As it seems that the GW Guru community seems to like their real-life metaphors, I'd like to compare this to a petty criminal who suffers the same fate as a leader of a major crime organisation. This shouldn't happen in any case, so why let it happen on Guild Wars?

P.S... I wasn't one of those who were banned, I have just been thinking about this since the announcement of the bans, and I think it raises some valid points.

Sorry for the long read ^^

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/e...ml#post5159172

A post I have made on another thread, which I think brings up some valid points

majoho · May 30, 2010, 03:20 PM // 15:20

^ curiosity killed the cat.

Seriously don't use the whole, "everyone did it so I wanted to try it out just to see what it was" and then now own up to your ban was well deserved.

The vast majority of people are sensible enough to NOT bot.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

^ curiosity killed the cat.

Seriously don't use the whole, "everyone did it so I wanted to try it out just to see what it was" and then now own up to your ban was well deserved.

The vast majority of people are sensible enough to NOT bot.

But surely you see where I'm coming from? The blanket response to botting that A-Net used is like punishing a shoplifter and mass murderer in the same matter.

There are players who I know that were banned after playing for 5 years, never receiving one black mark, and were banned because they injected once. This is still obviously against the rules, but they shouldn't be thrown in with the bots who farmed hours on end and earned $1000's from it.

The concept for the mass ban was a good idea, but there is one major flaw in it, which was the huge blanket response for violating accounts.

Gli · May 30, 2010, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

But surely you see where I'm coming from? The blanket response to botting that A-Net used is like punishing a shoplifter and mass murderer in the same matter.

Wrong analogy.

Scammers might be compared to shoplifters. You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Wrong analogy.

Scammers might be compared to shoplifters. You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught.

Well if you want to get technical, I could argue that scammers are actually more detrimental to the community than someone who loaded a bot for 5 minutes. But nice try.

snaek · May 30, 2010, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught.

what about assault? those that loaded up a bot to check it out, but didn't actually make any money from it?

tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

what about assault? those that loaded up a bot to check it out, but didn't actually make any money from it?

tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto.

It was simply an analogy based on comparisons, I didn't exactly bother going into detail :P But it looks like when people can't provide a reasonable argument, they pick at the technicalities. All I was trying to say was that the punishment should fit the crime.

Gill Halendt · May 30, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto.

I'd rather go for, stealing a candy once and stealing candies everyday.

It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency.

snaek · May 30, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

I'd rather go for, stealing a candy once and stealing candies everyday.

It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency.

true. but there are also bots (iirc) to farm ecto and gemstones for ambraces, which can be substantially more threatening than a raptor farming bot.

Gli · May 30, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

All this talk about degrees is just pointless though. There are no degrees.

There's just a line, a line between using a bot and not using a bot. Cross it, and face the consequences.

That just leaves all the crying about double standards. I don't claim to know why some people were banned and others are still merrily botting away. But it doesn't matter with regard to the people who were banned. It doesn't make sense to require that something is either done perfectly, or not at all. If they can't catch them all, that shouldn't stop them from catching some.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

I'd rather go for, stealing a candy once and stealing candies everyday.

It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency.

Exactly. There are varying levels of offence, and as such the punishment should vary with this.

Lost_Score · May 30, 2010, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

Exactly. There are varying levels of offence, and as such the punishment should vary with this.

so if i stole an almond joy, arguably the most disgusting candy of all time, what would happen?

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

All this talk about degrees is just pointless though. There are no degrees.

There's just a line, a line between using a bot and not using a bot. Cross it, and face the consequences.

That just leaves all the crying about double standards. I don't claim to know why some people were banned and others are still merrily botting away. But it doesn't matter with regard to the people who were banned. It doesn't make sense to require that something is either done perfectly, or not at all. If they can't catch them all, that shouldn't stop them from catching some.

Sorry sir, but with any system of judgement there are varying degrees of offence. If not, then you would be banned for saying one word that could be considered a racial slur. The real problem with botting, was the massive amounts of gold that could be farmed without much effort at all. The people who abuse this are suffering no consequences at all, as they have the resourses to offend again. The ones who were affected were the petty offenders who gave themselves a minute advantage in comparison. 2 week account suspension would be enough to stop these players from doing it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost_Score

so if i stole an almond joy, arguably the most disgusting candy of all time, what would happen?

You would appear on America's Stupidest Criminals ^^

Gli · May 30, 2010, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Pointing at other people who do worse never helps as a defense.

Ashius · May 30, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Pointing at other people who do worse never helps as a defense.

If you're referring to me, then I'm hardly defending anything, I did not receive a ban. But what I was saying is that they should not be thrown in the same boat as gold farmers, a 2 week suspension would be enough to let them know that A-Net is serious, and it would not lose them as potential customers for GW2. And don't say that the community would be better without them, as chances are 100% of what they had on their account they earned themselves, they just merely became curious and were burned at the stake for it.

Gill Halendt · May 30, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashius

Exactly. There are varying levels of offence, and as such the punishment should vary with this.

Sure. But account termination is the most basic form of punishment Anet can administer.

Covah · May 30, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sure. But account termination is the most basic form of punishment Anet can administer.

Pretty sure 24 hour ban is the most basic.